How the shutdown affects families who rely on SNAP benefits

Amna Nawaz:

Let’s now take a deeper look at the latest developments regarding food aid and the impact of the lockdown on families who depend on that aid.

So, I’m joined by Eric Mitchell. He is the president of the Alliance to End Hunger.

Thank you for being here.

ERIC MITCHELL, PRESIDENT, ZERO HUNGER COALITION: Thank you for having me.

Amna Nawaz:

Can we start with this legal wrangling and all the confusion? Is it clear to you when this money will be disbursed?

Eric Mitchell:

The short answer is no.

I mean they were still building this plane as it took off. We just heard that guidance has been issued to states by the USDA. I’m not clear on the details of those guidelines. I know there are countries trying to figure it out as we speak.

All we know is that you now have 42 million people hanging in the balance trying to figure out how they’re going to put food on the table.

Amna Nawaz:

So there is a political-legal battle and families caught in the crossfire. I heard some of them there on Lisa’s report.

Tell me about what you’re hearing from people about the kind of decisions they’re making now, and how they’re acting.

Eric Mitchell:

When we talk to our partners who work with people on the ground, you hear stories similar to what you just saw on screen, mothers trying to figure out what kind of food they will be able to provide for their children, some having to sacrifice eating, so that they have enough to eat.

Also keep in mind that this is like a string attached to a sweater. When a person cannot afford food or when these benefits disappear, he has to replace it with something else. So they may have to make choices that are difficult to understand. For example, how will they pay the rent? How will they cover their medical bills?

These are all things they have to figure out how to put together now that they no longer have the advantages to be able to afford food.

Amna Nawaz:

Food banks and food pantries have always been the place people have come to rely on to help fill the void. The need has risen. How are they managing this moment?

Eric Mitchell:

Food banks have already been overwhelmed, just based on how high the economy is and food prices and what have you. This doubles that.

I mean, you’ll now have — there are longer lines that you see across certain communities. When you go into communities, for example, just outside of the metropolitan area, because of the furlough, you have more families that have to rely on food banks and food pantries.

Then you layer that on top of the fact that you have families who are not receiving the SNAP benefits that they were receiving before. This makes it even – even further. So food banks are stretched, just like everyone else in communities.

Amna Nawaz:

Can I ask you what the Department of Justice is saying? Because they argued – their lawyers argue even today – quote – “there is no legal basis for an order directing the USDA to somehow find $4 billion in our metaphorical couch cushions.”

How do you respond to that? Do you think management has some commitment here?

Eric Mitchell:

Management certainly has a commitment.

This is actually contrary to what they were saying at the beginning of October, when the lockdown started. In fact, they said it was Congress’ intent that USDA would provide benefits and provide funding for SNAP benefits even when there is a disruption in coverage as a result of the shutdown.

That’s what they said on October 1st. They changed their minds a few weeks later and said they wouldn’t offer the benefits in November. And now they’re kind of coming back from there. So, yes, they have legal authority. Additionally, with the court decisions yesterday, I would say the legal authority is very clear — it’s the intent to not just fund SNAP, but fund SNAP in its entirety, so that people can get their benefits.

Amna Nawaz:

So how do you look at why this happens? In the report you heard Judge Collins say that there was a political reason. President Trump has posted that the shutdown will end — or SNAP benefits will be paid when the shutdown ends.

Do you think this is a political or financial decision?

Eric Mitchell:

You know, I never try to get into the mind or try to guess what people’s intentions are. I will say, yes, the lockdown is part of the reason we are in this situation. The lockdown certainly needs to end.

But there is an emergency fund to be able to provide resources for SNAP benefits while the shutdown is negotiated. So, in the long term, yes, the lockdown has to end so that we don’t have to revisit this conversation again in December. But I don’t, I won’t say what the administration’s views are.

This is the capital, so all things can be political.

Amna Nawaz:

Well, let me ask you about what we’ve seen, this mixture of efforts, state intervention to fill the void, and public and private efforts to do so. How long can this last?

Eric Mitchell:

All of this is actually a temporary band-aid for a bigger problem.

I mean, the states and the private sector, they’re all stepping up to the plate. I applaud the work they do to step up to the plate. But the reality is that the federal government should be able to provide those resources. For every meal served at the food bank, nine meals are provided based on federal government resources.

Thus, you cannot replace the role and responsibility that government has. Even with state and local governments, their budgets can only go so far. This is another unnecessary burden that states now have to figure out how to do.

Amna Nawaz:

Well, thank you, Eric Mitchell, President of the Zero Hunger Alliance, for being here today.

Eric Mitchell:

Thank you.