Brooks and Atkins Stohr talk about the end of lockdown and affordability concerns

Amna Nawaz:

It’s been another busy week in Washington that saw the end of the longest government shutdown in US history and new developments regarding the Jeffrey Epstein files.

For discussion, we now turn to Brooks and Atkins-Stohr’s analysis. They are David Brooks of the New York Times and Kimberly Atkins Stohr of the Boston Globe. Jonathan Capehart is absent.

Great to see you both.

Kimberly Atkins Stohr, Boston Globe:

It’s good to see you.

Amna Nawaz:

The longest government shutdown in US history has now ended. It took seven Democrats and one independent to break with the Democratic Party in the Senate. Six Democrats stormed the House of Representatives.

The deal they got, David, doesn’t include extending health care subsidies from the ACA, which is the reason they shut down the government in the first place. However, there is an argument here that Democrats have changed the conversation. We are now talking about subsidies. We’re talking about affordability.

Did they win the war and lose the battle? How do you look at this?

David Brooks:

This spins it. We’ve changed the conversation. Congratulations.

I would say that I have some lessons that I have learned that I wish the political parties would learn, primarily the Democrats, but also the Republicans. First, don’t pass satire laws. When Democrats took control of the White House, House of Representatives, and Senate in 2021, they passed these subsidies.

If they really believe in support, don’t let it disappear in five years. Make it permanent and be honest with the American people about the cost, so – and that and both parties do this end thing. So it was ridiculous for them to do it while they paid – the people they were trying to help were paying the price because of it.

Second, if you lose the election and the other party does something you don’t like, don’t shut down the government. Go to the voters, go to the midterms and say these Republican policies are terrible. Trust the voters. Don’t shut down the government

Third, don’t shut down the government when you’re not in the White House, because in these shutdowns, the president has the power to choose where the rest of the money goes, and he picks his priorities and makes your people suffer.

Fourth, or whatever number I plan, don’t shut down the government when your party is divided and they are united. You will lose. And they lost.

And so I think the Democrats shouldn’t have done that. Chuck Schumer knew they shouldn’t have done that. But the people at the party wanted to do something, so he did it and it didn’t look good.

Amna Nawaz:

Kimberly?

Kimberly Atkins Stohr:

When – yes, when there’s a situation where one party controls the White House and both chambers of Congress, and they’re diametrically opposed on things like health care affordability, Democrats had a moment and have been doing that for a while.

They were fighting. This is what their base and other Americans have wanted for a long time. It was a fair fight. By capitulating, they not only disappoint their base, but make people throw their hands at the government again and feel like they are not working for them.

I was in Dallas last weekend visiting families, and had some conversations with people who had different ideological leanings in me. And what everyone expressed was frustration, frustration that people in Washington are fighting with each other while people can’t afford health care.

They talked about health care in Texas, which I thought was important. Things are not within everyone’s reach. They are having difficulty getting through. Businesses suffer from tariffs and just want people to work and get it done right. If lockdown is a way to get there, it will at least produce some results.

By taking away the very thing Democrats were fighting for, and withdrawing before they got it, he let too many Americans down.

Amna Nawaz:

Are concerns about Chuck Schumer as leader justified?

Kimberly Atkins Stohr:

You know, I think I’m always in favor of leadership change and that people should not be in leadership positions at the House or Senate level. So I think any time we talk about reevaluating what leadership looks like, that’s a positive thing.

Amna Nawaz:

We are now talking about affordability in a way that was not part of the discourse before. And now the president is talking about greater affordability, too. He has shifted his rhetoric in recent days to address concerns, only today reducing tariffs on a number of major food items, such as coffee, bananas, beef, etc.

In a recent poll, about 30% of voters said that President Trump has met expectations when it comes to tackling inflation and the cost of living.

Here’s what President Trump said when asked about it on FOX recently.

Laura Ingraham, Fox News anchor:

Why do people say they are worried about the economy? Why do they say that?

Donald Trump:

I don’t know that they say – I think the polls are fake. We have the greatest economy we have ever had.

Amna Nawaz:

David, it’s an issue for the Americans. What do you think of the president’s words on this matter?

David Brooks:

Well, on one level, he’s kind of right. Inflation is at 3%, which is not terrible. Egg prices have fallen since his election. The unemployment rate remains low.

But then you look at consumer sentiment, it’s at the bottom. It’s unbelievable how much consumer confidence has fallen. So you have to listen to the American people. They know what they’re talking about. And I think it’s affordable – and it can afford it in two big cases.

One is health care and the other is housing. I saw a graph from Bloomberg today that showed that in 2010, 25 years ago – no, my math is wrong – 15 years ago.

(He laughed)

David Brooks:

The average age of a homebuyer was 39 years. This meant that a lot of people in their 30s were buying homes. Now, in 2025, the average homebuyer is 59 years old.

So young people cannot buy houses. So this is a big problem if you are a young man who wants to have a family and live a life. So these issues, and all the things that Trump does, are trivial, trivial. You have to do the big things, which is, a, rearrange the incentives in the health care system that allow all these costs to rise and continue throughout our lives.

Second, on housing, we have a housing problem because, especially in blue states over the last generation or two, we have created laws and rules and lawsuits to make it very difficult to build housing. So supply and demand, guess what, it’s a thing. So, if someone takes big action on these two big issues, you’re going to have a serious conversation about affordability.

But giving people some checks or reducing some tariffs, I’m glad they made the Swiss deal. My chocolate bill will go down, but we’re not talking about the real problems out there, which are real. Affordability issues are real.

Amna Nawaz:

What do you think about this conversation about affordability, Kimberly, and also the idea of ​​there being another budget fight in January?

Kimberly Atkins Stohr:

Yes. Yes.

Amna Nawaz:

Should Democrats shut down the government again if there’s no action on health care subsidies?

Kimberly Atkins Stohr:

I think Democrats need to show that there is a fight, but fight to the end, give everything they have, and leave nothing in court in this case.

Amna Nawaz:

What does that look like?

Kimberly Atkins Stohr:

Whatever tools they have, well, explain to the American people that you’re fighting for them.

Look, they can’t keep trying and doing this and disappointing the American people and expect the American people to keep coming back to them. You have a president who – I mean, these tariff exemptions, that’s all well and good, but it’s like pouring a thimble full of water on a fire. It won’t make a difference.

Indicators may not show a rise in inflation, but do you know what does? Americans receive receipts when they go to the grocery store, myself included. It’s horrible. We are coming up on the holidays too. Democrats need to fight with everything they have. They need to show that they understand Americans and are not just looking to save themselves in the next election.

Amna Nawaz:

Why are you laughing, David?

David Brooks:

Kimberly hits one of my triggers.

(crosstalk)

(He laughed)

David Brooks:

It ended with a struggle of words.

Amna Nawaz:

Yes.

David Brooks:

I don’t think the Democrats are fighting. I mean the little Democrats. I think the Democrats are convincing.

We are still in a democracy where you try to convince others. And to me, a lot of combative rhetoric is just strengthening your base with higher levels of volume. And it’s not very convincing. If you want to succeed in a democratic system, persuade, do not fight.

Kimberly Atkins Stohr:

I agree with you, actually. And when I say fight, I don’t mean fight each other. I mean, everyone, including the Texans I talked to, are tired of the partisan rancor in Washington.

I mean fight for the American people. It’s their power that they lend to these legislators to act on their behalf and listen to things about affordability and how they are — we talk a lot from the kitchen table. This is the kitchen table now. And they showed for a while that they cared, that they understood what was happening, what the people at those tables were talking about.

By walking away like that, it’s like they’re giving up that fight for the Americans.

Amna Nawaz:

I have to ask you about the president continuing to face more pressure and more questions about releasing those files on Jeffrey Epstein.

We’ve seen four Republicans join House Democrats to support a petition to force a vote on releasing those files. We saw one of those Republican lawmakers, Lauren Boebert of Colorado, summoned to the White House to talk about her push to release the files. We have heard that President Trump continues to try to convince Republicans to vote against the release.

“Democrats are doing everything they can to push the Epstein hoax again. Some weak Republicans have fallen for them because they are soft and foolish,” he posted online today.

David, what do you think about this? How will this end?

David Brooks:

Soon, I hope. I mean, I hate this issue.

This is the moment in my life, in my career, when I feel more uncertain about the future than any other. It’s artificial intelligence, it’s economic bubbles. It’s Ukraine. It’s – I mean there’s a million things going on. And Congress comes back and they do Epstein?

I also hate this issue because I am a journalist. We are journalists. When we report, we don’t publish everything someone tells us. We check it first. And I’m not a lawyer, like Kimberly, but I think the power of the prosecution, like the press, is multiplied by 100, because they can use the power of the state to get phone records, to get emails.

You can’t publish it without verifying it, whether it’s part of some process where you need to court people. And when I look at the content of these emails, most of it is just gibberish. Trump broke up with Epstein in 2004, and many of these emails are from 2019.

So the only kernel that raises alarms is when Epstein says Trump was with one of the victims. This should be investigated. But the rest is just chatter, and I don’t know why it’s central.

Amna Nawaz:

Less than a minute.

Kimberly Atkins Stohr:

Donald Trump campaigned on the release of these files. A lot of this is in his hands. He’s trying to have his cake and eat it too by saying this is a Democratic hoax, while at the same time saying he wants the Department of Justice to look into the Democrats named in these files.

He can’t have it both ways. I agree with you. I hate this topic. I hate that his disability of her has caused her to end up in this dodge of the news and for this to continue in a way that I’m sure will be devastating to the victims.

Donald Trump is not a victim in this. There are real victims. And I think about them.

Amna Nawaz:

I’m sorry to report that we will probably talk about this again sometime.

(He laughed)

Amna Nawaz:

Kimberly Atkins Stohr, David Brooks, great to see you together.

Kimberly Atkins Stohr:

Thank you.

David Brooks:

It’s good to see you.