Kevin McCloud: “We measure the value of a house by the number of toilets in it – which is crazy” | Podcast

There’s an old saying that Australians only want to talk about two things – sports and property. Do you think we talk too much about real estate?

In my experience, Australians never talk about real estate, but the Australian media talks about it all the time. It’s a bit like politics in the UK, where the right wing is a small minority and yet they are present throughout the BBC. The media will always pick up on something they think should be a topic of national conversation because it sells newspapers. But in my dealings with Australians, I find that I speak well on all other topics. There is something very interesting about Australia’s can-do attitude. The British national tradition is to say: “Maybe, I don’t know – ask me in six months.” We are very good at circumventing a problem. But the moment I got off the plane in Australia, I wondered: What can we do? I love the optimism in Australia.

[Tim & Kev’s Big Design Adventure co-host] Tim Ross and I are currently selling tickets for our live show and I would have liked the show to be slower. There’s no reason for me to be like this – shy and British and not wanting it to work out.

What is the most important room in the house?

Any room with a lock is very good. Most teens would agree with me on that. There is a beautiful book that a friend recently gave me, called “The Poetics of Space” by the French philosopher Gaston Bachelard. What he is saying is that all of our relationships to place, and therefore to property, are shaped in our childhoods and the homes in which we grew up. There is something that buildings do, he says, that defines our home, which is to provide a space for intimacy—not physical intimacy but psychological intimacy. It’s really important to have a space, maybe a corner of the room or a window with a view, where you can daydream and know that you can do so safely.

What Australian building would you like to bring back to England?

Many Australian buildings are unique in location and therefore cannot be easily moved. The Sydney Opera House originated in the UK, and it was always very important in my mind because it was on the airmail stamp. I have a lot of family in Australia – my parents got a £10 ticket, then my mum found out she was pregnant with me, so they cancelled.

You were almost Australian, Kevin!

Yes! I actually have more relatives in Australia now than I do in the UK. But rather than looking at the opera house, the beautiful thing about Australia is the way it takes its 19th and 20th century history seriously. Australia is the most amazing destination for modernity. Just up the road from Tim’s house in Sydney, there is a cottage that is the most exquisitely preserved piece of 1920s architecture. I would put one of those bungalows in every town in Britain, and say: ‘Look at this! All that plastic double glazing you put in, and that big garage you put in, and the paint colors you choose, and the balcony you nailed down the back – this “It’s the perfect thing.”

Is there a particular design trend currently that you find frustrating?

Too many bathrooms. I often visit homes that have more toilets than there are humans occupying the building. Even if you’re having a party for 100 people, no more than two people at any given moment will want to pee. Now we measure the value of a house by how many toilets and bathrooms it has, which is crazy. I have just finished building a small barn and am very angry at the idea that the bathroom is an object of money fetish since there is only one toilet and it is the only room in the house that has a door. You know, the wall behind me is actually a bat loft – we’ve lost about 15% of the building’s area because it’s now dedicated to rare species of bats. That’s British Planning Law for you. If historical mobs can’t get you, bats will. I like having a loft for the bats though.

The great American architect Charles Moore once said that architecture should be a tool for communication – not isolation. We’re building these perfect worlds with all these restrooms and makeup mirrors and media rooms, so that every family can live in a castle and you can pull back the drawbridge to be completely independent from your neighbors and the natural world. You can’t enter and you don’t need to exit. We have pursued a very selfish agenda. That’s all I’m saying – I’ll go bats every time.

Who is the most famous person on your phone?

Isn’t that considered bragging?

Yes, that’s the point.

Well… you meet a few people along the way because of the club I belong to, the TV Viewers Club. People who are in the public eye and therefore also have to deal with social media and the constant hustle and bustle of taking a selfie. And you always have something to talk about, don’t you? So there’s Monty Don, who lives down the street from me. He’s very private and I’m very private, but sometimes we have a chin shake.

What are you secretly good at?

Increasingly, as I get older, I think I’m less good at things than I thought I was. I can build – I literally rebuilt the building I’m sitting in, and I can do some woodwork and carpentry. But I’m not confident in any of that and therefore I like to hire plumbers, electricians and curtain makers now. The arrogance of youth is wonderful, isn’t it? I don’t think there’s such a thing as old age arrogance, that’s for sure.

What’s the strangest thing you’ve eaten?

For TV purposes, I’ve been forced to eat all sorts of things. I don’t really have a sense of smell, which is a big plus. I’ve had bugs, frog legs, and goat eyeballs – it sounds like a magical recipe. I once made coffee from chicory roots, and it was very delicious. And I brewed some oak beer from acorns, which I didn’t like very much. I ate some fermented shark, which was buried underground in Iceland. It’s absolutely foul. You don’t have to eat it to imagine what it tastes like. Such as eating vomit mixed with ammonia. And I have to do all these things in front of the camera.

What book, album or movie do you always go back to and why?

I watched the trading places last night. It’s Eddie Murphy and Dan Aykroyd at their peak, and the entire cast are 20th-century Hollywood greats. But the language and some of the ideas are starting to feel uncomfortable now. It deals with racism head on, doesn’t it? But the language of the early 1980s is now embarrassing. But I stand by the fact that it deals with race and issues of privilege. So I like it; I applaud him almost. But I don’t know how long we’ll be able to watch it before it becomes unacceptable.

If you had a sandwich named after you, what would it be on?

I am very happy to call my favorite sandwich. But if it’s named after me, it should be very sustainable and contain wood chips or something eco-friendly. Yes – they will be insulated structural panels made from recycled expanded polystyrene.

What is your most memorable interaction with a fan?

This is something that happens regularly and always amazes me: when someone in their 30s comes up to me and says, “I’m an architect or an engineer, and what got me into this was watching Grand Designs when I was eight with my mum and dad.” Of course, I am not responsible at all for anyone who makes these decisions. But the thing is, TV is disappearing, and sometimes you think, “This is my whole life and there’s nothing to watch.” He’s just messing around in front of the camera. So when someone says that, it’s powerful. It confirms the correctness of the function. This is what a TV snob like me dreams of hearing.