Tamara Keith and Amy Walter in contrast to the Trump-Epstein files

Amna Nawaz:

The week is shaping up to be a busy one on Capitol Hill after President Trump’s retraction of the Epstein files.

To discuss that and more, we now turn to Monday’s policy duo. That’s The Cook Policy Report’s Amy Walter with NPR’s Amy Walter and Tamara Keith, who joins us tonight from Salt Lake City.

Good to see you both.

Amy Walter, Cook Political Report:

Welcome.

(crosstalk)

Amna Nawaz:

So, Tam, I’ll start with you because, as you heard Lisa report earlier, the House is now expected to vote on releasing the Epstein files tomorrow. You saw what the president posted online when he backed off, at least rhetorically, from releasing those files.

“House Republicans should vote to release the Epstein files because we have nothing to hide. It’s time to move on from this Democratic hoax. I don’t care. All I care about is that Republicans get back to a certain point,” he said.

So, Tam, what should we know about the cause of this reversal?

Tamara Keith, NPR:

Well, at first, he was kind of raising his hand, trying to ask the moving freight train to slow down and stop. Ultimately, he realized that this would pass and that he would get a lot of Republican votes. That would show a rift between him and his party’s members in Congress, something he doesn’t really want.

So he got out of the way. Now instead of this being a vote that shows weakness, he can turn it into a vote that shows the House agrees with what he wants. But, obviously, for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks, he made it very clear that he didn’t want to take that vote. Now he says he will sign the bill if it reaches him.

Of course, it must pass through the Senate. His public situation may be different from his private situation there.

Amna Nawaz:

Amy, we saw him trying to pressure some Republicans not to support this version.

Amy Walter:

This is correct. This is correct.

Amna Nawaz:

What does this tell you about its impact on lawmakers?

Amy Walter:

Yeah, it’s been really interesting the last couple of weeks, hasn’t it?

We’ve seen some pushback from Republicans in ways we haven’t seen throughout his second term. We are watching Indiana and Kansas legislators there actively resist pressure from the White House to redistrict those states, including trips by the Vice President and the President to call and demand that those members be re-elected in the primaries.

We see the president himself coming in and canceling some of the tariffs he imposed on some food commodities, coffee being one of them. Tariffs are clearly a big issue for voters, with voters across the board saying tariffs have negatively impacted the economy. So he doesn’t admit that these definitions were a bad idea, but he deletes them to certainly indicate that he feels these tensions.

Now, on this matter, says Tam, it was very clear – where the journey was going and so he got on the right train.

Amna Nawaz:

Going forward, so he can fall in line with where House Republicans are.

Amy Walter:

Yes.

Amna Nawaz:

I want to talk about affordability in a moment, but, Tam, I need to ask you about what Lisa was writing about Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene in particular, because it’s fascinating to see that connection.

She went from being a staunch supporter to openly opposing him on the matter, with President Trump calling her a traitor. How do you see that rift? And I should also point out that our viewers are aware, we’ve invited the congresswoman to the show. She accepted our invitation and then her team ended up canceling. I would like to point out advocacy positions. She is welcome at any time.

But how do you look at that, Tam?

Tamara Keith:

Yes, I think this rift is much bigger than just the Epstein files.

She’s someone who – she says she still very much supports the president, but she’s channeling the voice of his voters and his base. It certainly comes from a populist perspective.

So it’s not just about the Epstein files, although that’s certainly something you expressed. But she also criticized his meeting with several foreign leaders. As we know, he has another meeting with a Saudi leader tomorrow. He met with a Syrian leader last week, which is fine.

And she’s saying, hey, you need to focus on the United States, focus on domestic policy, focus on America first, which is what I ran on. And to get to the point of affordability, she was on “The Sean Spicer Show” last week and said something pretty amazing. The president’s message is that costs have come down and affordability is something that is being weaponized against by Democrats.

And she came out and said, basically, Mr. President, don’t gaslight your constituents. They’re going to the grocery store. They buy clothes for their children. They pay the energy bills. They know that things are more expensive.

Amna Nawaz:

Amy, you’ve disagreed with the president on costs of living, foreign policy, and health care subsidies. Do you represent something new in the MAGA movement?

Amy Walter:

I don’t know.

I mean, it also created a lot of disagreements with other members of the Republican conference. She was kicked out of the House Conservative Caucus, the Freedom Caucus. She has disagreements with several other members within the Republican Party. She is someone who loved it and attracted a lot of attention.

But I think that says something about the fact that the real response, the first real response we’ve seen from members of Congress – and let’s be clear, if Trump had not said he supports, this bill would likely have passed – that the first real response is not about tariffs. It’s not about the fact that the military was targeting drug boats in the Caribbean.

It’s not about congressional redistricting. It’s the Epstein files.

Amna Nawaz:

right.

Amy Walter:

And I think that speaks to and what Marjorie Taylor Greene seems to speak to is this larger, broader populist message, which is the idea that unites the Republican base, or at least the MAGA base, that there is a system that rewards certain people in the establishment, and covers things for them, and that we want to be the people who expose that.

And that tells us exactly what really breaks MAGA about Trump.

Amna Nawaz:

Meanwhile, Tam, on the affordability issue, we’ve seen a shift from the White House, from the president, at least trying to change the narrative a little bit and change some of their tone.

We’ve seen the president try to make some moves on lowering prescription drug costs, eliminating some of the tariffs, as Amy pointed out, on key items. What do you know about the reasons for this shift and how do they explain it?

Tamara Keith:

Yes, rolling back tariffs is pretty astonishing, given how much of President Trump’s political agenda during his second term was built around tariffs and the denial that they make things more expensive for American consumers. But now they say, OK, job done, we can make coffee cheaper again.

I spoke with a White House official, a senior White House official, who said that they realized that the president was too focused on foreign policy and that he needed to come out with an affordability message and that he needed to say there was more work to be done.

And in fact, just moments ago, he was – I think he might still be talking. He was speaking at this McDonald’s conference. And he said a lot of these lines that I’ve heard from senior administration officials, where he said, I won’t rest until we make America accessible again, in some form, and he also said there’s more work to be done.

This is new, because previously the president would often move the football around and say everything was great and we are in the golden age because he is president.

Amna Nawaz:

Amy, do voters care if he contradicts himself or do they only care about price cuts?

(crosstalk)

Amy Walter:

They want him to lower prices.

I mean, this is where the Biden administration found itself during the ’21 and ’22 era, where everything was fine. I don’t understand why people complain about inflation. It’s really not bad. What you see with your own eyes is not true. The economy is improving. Look at what we do.

So I think what voters prioritize, what does it mean to me? I’m not really interested in how you want to reveal your own agenda or have a theory of the case. How does it affect me? The other thing the president is trying to do and not really succeeding at is blaming Biden for where we are.

Voters overwhelmingly see this as Trump’s economy. So the fact that, a year after the next election, the fact that he’s addressing this issue is an important factor, especially if you’re a Republican in 2026. You want to see the president do this more often.

Amna Nawaz:

Amy Walter, great to have you here. Tamara Keith, safe travels to you. It’s good to have both. Thank you very much.

Amy Walter:

Thank you.

Tamara Keith:

Thank you.