Trump said Democrats should be arrested for urging the military to reject illegal orders

Amna Nawaz:

Six congressional Democrats with military and intelligence backgrounds are urging current service members to ignore the chain of command if they receive illegal orders.

Rep. Chris DiLuzio (D-PA):

Currently, threats to our Constitution do not come only from abroad…

Rep. Jason Crow (D-Colorado):

…but from here at home.

Senator Mark Kelly (Democrat, Arizona):

Our laws are clear. You can reject illegal requests.

Senator Elissa Slotkin (D-Mich.):

You can reject illegal requests.

Representative Chris DiLuzio:

You must reject illegal orders.

Senator Elissa Slotkin:

No one may carry out orders that violate the law…

Rep. Chrissy Holahan (D-PA):

…or our Constitution.

Amna Nawaz:

Now, they haven’t specified which orders they consider illegal, but President Trump responded, writing on social media that these members of Congress should be “arrested and prosecuted,” saying their actions are seditious conduct of traitors, which is – quote – “punishable by death.”

Congressman Jason Crow of Colorado is a retired Army soldier and one of the Democrats you just heard about in this video. Join me now.

Congressman, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining us.

Representative Jason Crow:

Hello Amna.

Amna Nawaz:

So Carolyn Leavitt, the White House press secretary, was asked about all of this at today’s press conference. I just want to play it back for you.

a question:

Just to be clear, does the president want to execute members of Congress?

Carolyn Leavitt, White House Press Secretary:

No, let’s be clear about what the president is responding to. You have sitting members of the United States Congress who conspired together to organize a video message to members of the United States military, active duty members, and members of the National Security Service, encouraging them to defy the President’s lawful orders.

Amna Nawaz:

Congressman, I just want to get your response to the latest news from the White House on this.

Representative Jason Crow:

Well, first off, Carolyn Levitt is just lying.

We specifically said for illegal orders – they don’t have to obey illegal orders, and that’s actually what the Constitution says, what the Uniform Code of Military Justice says and what we were trained for when we were in uniform as well.

This administration wants people to believe that just reminding people of their oath and what the law requires is somehow criminal and should lead to treason and hanging, because, secondly, that’s what the president said this morning. He called for a treason trial. He called for our arrest. He specifically called for us to be executed by hanging.

Amna Nawaz:

So, to be specific here, Congressman, what are the illegal orders that you are asking military members to refuse? What did you see that prompted you and others to make this video?

Representative Jason Crow:

This video is not intended to indicate specific commands. It is to prepare our service members, our young men and women, who will be put in very difficult situations in the years to come to understand their oath and their commitment.

There are plenty of reasons to worry. In fact, Donald Trump asked if he could shoot protesters in the leg during the protests in Lafayette Square. Donald Trump said he would go to war with Chicago and send troops into our cities, many of which have already been declared illegal by federal courts.

So there is a lot of reason for concern. And we want to start a public conversation about the real commitment of our forces, the same way I did before I deployed my paratrooper platoon to Iraq in 2003, because once you get to the point where they’re faced with an immediate decision, it’s too late if you haven’t already had that conversation with them.

Amna Nawaz:

Well, Congressman, for military members who are trying to deal with this right now, I want to share with you what I heard from the director of the Orders Project, a nonprofit organization that provides legal advice to military service members who don’t have a clear idea about or are concerned about their orders.

They have seen an uptake in calls recently. But this person also said that any service member who disobeys an order on the grounds that it is illegal runs the risk of disapproval by a military judge. Then they have to face the consequences.

Are you telling military members that they have to take that risk?

Representative Jason Crow:

Well, listen, every military member takes that risk. Service is difficult. Being in the army is very difficult.

So what we want to do is send a message that members of Congress, and their fellow veterans, we stand with them, we see them, and we remind them of their oath.

Amna Nawaz:

Congressman, you have served honorably. We thank you for your service. And so did most of the people in this video.

But so did retired four-star General Barry McCaffrey. He had this to say in response to your video. He said: “This action by Democrats is unjustified and dangerous. Focus on your responsibilities in Congress to oppose military actions that you believe are wrong or illegal. Support the judicial system to respond. Do not call on the military to stop Trump.”

What do you say to that?

Representative Jason Crow:

Well, we’re not calling on the military to stop Trump. We call on the military to fulfill its oath.

Unfortunately, I believe that General McCaffrey does not understand the moment we are in, and the challenges this administration poses to the troops. I believe he does not understand the time and challenges that leaders face now.

Amna Nawaz:

Don’t you trust that the courts will continue to block, slow down, or stop Trump’s policies as they have been doing?

Representative Jason Crow:

They may. They are not allowed to do so. And even when the courts issue their orders, in more than a third of the cases, this administration ignores the legal orders issued by the courts, right? They simply ignore court orders time and time again.

So my job as a member of Congress is to do everything possible to uphold the Constitution and defend this country. I don’t depend on anyone to help me do my homework, right? This is a project that the entire country must undertake. The courts have an obligation. Citizens have a duty. The army has a duty. Law enforcement has an obligation. And I have my own.

Amna Nawaz:

We saw Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer say today that he requested special protection for Senators Slotkin and Kelly, who appeared with you in that video, after the president’s post about sedition. Are you concerned about your own safety? Have you noticed any increase in threats since the president took office?

Representative Jason Crow:

Yes, we have received threats. We take these matters seriously.

I mean, this actually indicates that the president continues to incite violence with his vitriolic, partisan rhetoric over and over again. This is very serious stuff, isn’t it? People sometimes act on what Donald Trump and others say, right?

They certainly did on January 6th. So I understand the threats we face now. I take those things seriously. But I won’t be afraid. But what Donald Trump wants is he wants to use fear and intimidation to silence dissent, to silence dissent, to silence expression.

And I’m not allowed to – I won’t allow that to happen, because the moment we allow that to happen is the moment we lose our democracy. I won’t let that happen. Fear is contagious, but so is courage. And I intend to drive.

Amna Nawaz:

Congressman Jason Crow of Colorado, thank you for taking the time to speak with us. We appreciate that.

Representative Jason Crow:

Thank you.