“We needed to change the equation,” says Senator Kaine on his vote to end the shutdown.

Jeff Bennett:

As Lisa mentioned, the vote to end the shutdown divided Senate Democrats. Tonight, we’ll get two views.

I spoke earlier this afternoon with Virginia Senator Tim Kaine. He is among those who voted in favor of the deal to end the deadlock.

Senator Tim Kaine, welcome back to The News Hour.

Senator Tim Kaine (D-Virginia):

Great to be with you.

Jeff Bennett:

So why cast your vote to end the shutdown at the same moment when so many Democrats think they are winning the politics of this battle? Even President Trump admitted a few days ago that Republicans, as he put it, are being politically murdered because of this shutdown.

So why give up what many Democrats believe is a moral and strategic advantage and make a deal now?

Senator Tim Kaine:

Well, Jeff, politics is one thing, but I represent 8.5 million Virginians, and the vote I cast was very good for them.

When we reached this shutdown, it was because President Trump ordered Republicans to write a bill without us, and then refused to participate. When bosses don’t intervene, you go into lockdown. During the month of October, I was very focused on the Virginia elections, and I was talking with negotiators about my own case.

I wanted protection for federal employees. After we had a big win in Virginia last Tuesday night, President Trump had breakfast the next morning and realized that this shutdown was hurting him, and they were blaming him, and at that point he got involved.

I looked at the ground that day, and it was clear that there was no way forward on health care unless we opened up the government. Republicans who said there are no discussions about health care unless you open the government, we tested them 12 or 13 times with my support, and they haven’t backed down from that.

I also knew that SNAP recipients, the most vulnerable people in America, 45 million, one in eight Americans, were losing benefits, as money in their emergency account was set to run out before Thanksgiving. So, there was no way forward for health care, and SNAP beneficiaries were suffering, we needed to change the equation.

And what we ended up getting was a full year of funding, strong funding for SNAP recipients, repairing some of the damage done by the reconciliation bill, a path forward on health care, and then what I negotiated in the bill, dramatic protections for two million federal employees who were tired of being kicked.

Jeff Bennett:

On the issue of Obamacare subsidies, the same issue that led to the shutdown, there is little in this deal that provides tangible relief.

Of course, Senate Republicans promising a vote in the future is not the same as Senate Republicans promising an outcome. So how do you explain your support?

Senator Tim Kaine:

Will there be tangible relief in a week? Would there have been any tangible relief in one month? Could there have been any tangible relief within two months? There was no evidence to suggest that, that was my assessment. Some people rate it differently.

There was no evidence to suggest that Republicans would talk about health care until the government was open, when there was complete certainty that there would be pain every day of shutdowns, people losing paychecks and poor credit, people losing SNAP benefits, and the chaos of air traffic control.

So what we had, Jeff, look, what we had, last Wednesday, which I participated in the negotiations on Friday, was no way forward on health care unless we open government and the absence of open government that punishes the most vulnerable in America. That’s why I negotiated provisions to protect federal workers and then embraced a path to fully funding SNAP and other safety net programs and a path forward toward a vote on health care, which I believe we can win.

Jeff Bennett:

By supporting this deal, you are bucking most Senate Democrats, including Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer. Should this be read as a message about your view of his leadership?

Senator Tim Kaine:

No, look, I like leaders, but I’m not a good follower. I voted for Chuck to be a leader and I want him to be a leader and he will be a leader.

But I don’t need a permission slip from anyone to do what’s best for the people of Virginia because the people of Virginia gave me that permission slip when they re-elected me to a third term last year.

Jeff Bennett:

This agreement sets a new funding deadline, January 30, if passed by both chambers. What’s the plan, is there a plan to ensure we don’t come back here again in January?

Senator Tim Kaine:

Here’s – so make sure – if you want – if you want guarantees, the United States Congress is not the place, but this is the plan.

The good news is that we have completed three of the full-year appropriations bills and included them in this bill. This means that about a third of the work has already been completed. In the remaining bills, many of these have already been implemented as well. So the appropriators go back to the table to find deals on this remaining business.

Meanwhile, in December we will have a high-stakes debate on the issue of the health care tax credit. And, Jeff, the discussion will take place without the background noise of shutdowns, SNAP benefits disappearing, people losing checks, and air traffic disasters. The background noise of the lockdown will not obscure the very important battle over people’s health care.

We will put a good proposal on the table that will protect people’s health care, make it affordable, and be attractive to Republicans who hear the same thing from their constituents that I hear from my constituents. Then we will have a discussion and a vote. There is no guaranteed result.

But I’ll tell you this. If Republicans do not solve this problem of their own making, next November’s midterm elections will be much worse even than the November 25 elections in Virginia and New Jersey.

Jeff Bennett:

Democratic Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia, thank you again for joining us this evening.

Senator Tim Kaine:

You bet.